Its in... Mid 30s implanted with Rigicon Infla10 AX on NHS UK

[whatevery]

The point is is that because the NHS offers free healthcare there's no opportunity to sell to patients other than for treatment that isn't necessary. Also, because there's no profit incentive it has to minimize costs. And the longer people are sick or unwell the more it costs the system. So the incentive to offer the best possible treatment option as early as reasonably and justifiably possible to cure is there but not for treatment that doesn't have strong supporting evidence.

That make sense. If you think about it however the same takes place in the US. Private insurance companies are not interested in you remaining sick because in that case they have to pay claims and lose money. Private insurance companies are interested in you paying them monthly premiums and not going to doctors much.

That's why many private insurance companies cover bariatric surgeries because they calculated that if you lose weight you're not going to get diabetes and be billing them through the roof for the rest of your life. For the same reason they're more interested in enlisting younger insurers that don't get sick than those that get up in age.

Who might be interested in you staying sick, from purely profit perspective, are the doctors. You're not bringing them business if you're healthy. They can't bill NHS or private insurance company if you're healthy. You being sick is their bread on both sides of the pond, in fact I suspect the world over. Well... maybe not in North Korea

You say in the States the system allows for someone not to buy health insurance? In that case would a middle income person then get healthcare?

I think there is a typo there. I think you meant to ask "HOW" would a middle income person then get healthcare?

I think there are few ways. I'm with the Veterans care (here it's called the VA) and now I also be getting my health care through Medicare and before I would sometimes get health insurance from the company I worked for so I might not be an expert here but this is what I figure.

Let's say you're self-employed, or work for too small of the company that doesn't offer benefits (pizza place on the corner) but you're not poor and you want to buy yourself health insurance. Things have changed significantly since 2010 when what's called Obamacare was enacted.

Now people usually go to https://www.healthcare.gov/ which would have a list of options for you to choose from. Cheaper options would naturally be more limited in coverage and have greater deductions or...

you could call around and price it up with insurance companies directly or...

you could call insurance agents which would have a list of private insurers they work with and make your pick there.

Insurance plan that you purchase would usually auto renew each year unless you tell them not to.

Now what's the catch?

The catch is called "Open Enrollment Period" (OEP) which takes place in late fall early winter and lasts for about 2 months. If you miss it and you still don't have health insurance then you're shit out of luck and would probably have to remain uninsured until next OEP. Unless there are special circumstances like you had a baby, got divorced, or for some reason lost your coverage like for example went to Vegas for a few days and now you're poor Actually happens more often than you think, especially if you're Asian, particularly Chinese.

Or... you got yourself a bug that isn't covered by a cheaper insurance plan that you picked. Then you'd be well advised to get your medical care in Thailand which is really pretty darn good actually. I know some American doctors that go to Brazil for training - I'm sure including some penile implanters.

Just fyi, the auxetic cuts aka Tunica Enhancement Procedure (TEP) for your dingaling elongation or additional girth expansion was invented and first practiced in Brazil, and the best most experienced doctors for it apparently are still in Sao Paulo. I know that Valenzuela that advertises TEP in NYC spent some time training in Brazil (I wonder why ) I also wonder how Hakky first aquired his auxetic options.

[splitpeach]

The point is is that because the NHS offers free healthcare there's no opportunity to sell to patients other than for treatment that isn't necessary. Also, because there's no profit incentive it has to minimize costs. And the longer people are sick or unwell the more it costs the system. So the incentive to offer the best possible treatment option as early as reasonably and justifiably possible to cure is there but not for treatment that doesn't have strong supporting evidence.

"That make sense. If you think about it however the same takes place in the US. Private insurance companies are not interested in you remaining sick because in that case they have to pay claims and lose money. Private insurance companies are interested in you paying them monthly premiums and not going to doctors much."

I really need to learn how you do that specific quoting from someone's comment.

But I'm not convinced insurance companies will prioritize getting you well over not paying out. I suspect that if you're not covered or if theres a way for them to wriggle out of paying out then they will. And then when it comes to policy renewal your premium skyrockets.

I really see no argument for an insurance based system over a well functioning universal healthcare system having experienced both. The key phrase there is well functioning however.

With your private insurance do you have to renew each year as you would with car insurance?

"Who might be interested in you staying sick, from purely profit perspective, are the doctors. You're not bringing them business if you're healthy. They can't bill NHS or private insurance company if you're healthy. You being sick is their bread on both sides of the pond, in fact I suspect the world over. Well... maybe not in North Korea "

This is where it's different. The NHS is an employer not a fund / scheme. The medical professionals are (largely) on salary. So actually the doctors would much prefer as few patients walking through the door. Makes no difference to their income. Just each trust / area needs to have certain treatment options available. But there's no shortage of patients that's for sure. Like I said if anything it's overburdened. They want to reduce the strain and get people healthy ASAP.

This makes it fundamentally within the interests of the patient if it's managed well and is efficient, which is the main problem with it. Most of all are wait times.

You say in the States the system allows for someone not to buy health insurance? In that case would a middle income person then get healthcare?

I think there is a typo there. I think you meant to ask "HOW" would a middle income person then get healthcare?

No it was said that in the States the system allows for someone not to buy health insurance. But I think the meaning of this was that it would also mean they then also don't get healthcare.

"I think there are few ways. I'm with the Veterans care (here it's called the VA) and now I also be getting my health care through Medicare and before I would sometimes get health insurance from the company I worked for so I might not be an expert here but this is what I figure.

Let's say you're self-employed, or work for too small of the company that doesn't offer benefits (pizza place on the corner) but you're not poor and you want to buy yourself health insurance. Things have changed significantly since 2010 when what's called Obamacare was enacted.

Now people usually go to https://www.healthcare.gov/ which would have a list of options for you to choose from. Cheaper options would naturally be more limited in coverage and have greater deductions or...

you could call around and price it up with insurance companies directly or...

you could call insurance agents which would have a list of private insurers they work with and make your pick there.

Insurance plan that you purchase would usually auto renew each year unless you tell them not to.

Now what's the catch?

The catch is called "Open Enrollment Period" (OEP) which takes place in late fall early winter and lasts for about 2 months. If you miss it and you still don't have health insurance then you're shit out of luck and would probably have to remain uninsured until next OEP. Unless there are special circumstances like you had a baby, got divorced, or for some reason lost your coverage like for example went to Vegas for a few days and now you're poor Actually happens more often than you think, especially if you're Asian, particularly Chinese.

Or... you got yourself a bug that isn't covered by a cheaper insurance plan that you picked. Then you'd be well advised to get your medical care in Thailand which is really pretty darn good actually. I know some American doctors that go to Brazil for training - I'm sure including some penile implanters."

You see all of this here just sounds like a nightmare and and just doesn't exist on NHS. If you're not in the position to pay for private healthcare then you use the NHS and get what you need without a single thought of cover or financials or deadlines and accept that the food is awful and unless its urgent you'll be waiting a few months.

But I'd STILL take it over private. Because I don't want to lie in a hospital bed wondering if the surgery I just had was really necessary or if the doctor / surgeon that performed it saw an opportunity to have a big payday from an insurance company.

If its on NHS then they can and often do suggest private options if it would be faster or as an experiment. The point on the NHS is that they really don't care if you take their treatment or not but the checks and standards are extremely rigorous that they are heavily scrutinized to offer good quality care. More so in my opinion than in the private sector.

"Just fyi, the auxetic cuts aka Tunica Enhancement Procedure (TEP) for your dingaling elongation or additional girth expansion was invented and first practiced in Brazil, and the best most experienced doctors for it apparently are still in Sao Paulo. I know that Valenzuela that advertises TEP in NYC spent some time training in Brazil (I wonder why ) I also wonder how Hakky first aquired his auxetic options.

"

I really need to learn how you do that specific quoting from someone's comment.

But I'm not convinced insurance companies will prioritize getting you well over not paying out. I suspect that if you're not covered or if theres a way for them to wriggle out of paying out then they will. And then when it comes to policy renewal your premium skyrockets.

I really see no argument for an insurance based system over a well functioning universal healthcare system having experienced both. The key phrase there is well functioning however.

With your private insurance do you have to renew each year as you would with car insurance?

"Who might be interested in you staying sick, from purely profit perspective, are the doctors. You're not bringing them business if you're healthy. They can't bill NHS or private insurance company if you're healthy. You being sick is their bread on both sides of the pond, in fact I suspect the world over. Well... maybe not in North Korea "

This is where it's different. The NHS is an employer not a fund / scheme. The medical professionals are (largely) on salary. So actually the doctors would much prefer as few patients walking through the door. Makes no difference to their income. Just each trust / area needs to have certain treatment options available. But there's no shortage of patients that's for sure. Like I said if anything it's overburdened. They want to reduce the strain and get people healthy ASAP.

This makes it fundamentally within the interests of the patient if it's managed well and is efficient, which is the main problem with it. Most of all are wait times.

quote]You say in the States the system allows for someone not to buy health insurance? In that case would a middle income person then get healthcare?[/quote]

I think there is a typo there. I think you meant to ask "HOW" would a middle income person then get healthcare?

No it was said that in the States the system allows for someone not to buy health insurance. But I think the meaning of this was that it would also mean they then also don't get healthcare.

"I think there are few ways. I'm with the Veterans care (here it's called the VA) and now I also be getting my health care through Medicare and before I would sometimes get health insurance from the company I worked for so I might not be an expert here but this is what I figure.

Let's say you're self-employed, or work for too small of the company that doesn't offer benefits (pizza place on the corner) but you're not poor and you want to buy yourself health insurance. Things have changed significantly since 2010 when what's called Obamacare was enacted.

Now people usually go to https://www.healthcare.gov/ which would have a list of options for you to choose from. Cheaper options would naturally be more limited in coverage and have greater deductions or...

you could call around and price it up with insurance companies directly or...

you could call insurance agents which would have a list of private insurers they work with and make your pick there.

Insurance plan that you purchase would usually auto renew each year unless you tell them not to.

Now what's the catch?

The catch is called "Open Enrollment Period" (OEP) which takes place in late fall early winter and lasts for about 2 months. If you miss it and you still don't have health insurance then you're shit out of luck and would probably have to remain uninsured until next OEP. Unless there are special circumstances like you had a baby, got divorced, or for some reason lost your coverage like for example went to Vegas for a few days and now you're poor Actually happens more often than you think, especially if you're Asian, particularly Chinese.

Or... you got yourself a bug that isn't covered by a cheaper insurance plan that you picked. Then you'd be well advised to get your medical care in Thailand which is really pretty darn good actually. I know some American doctors that go to Brazil for training - I'm sure including some penile implanters."

You see all of this here just sounds like a nightmare and and just doesn't exist on NHS. If you're not in the position to pay for private healthcare then you use the NHS and get what you need without a single thought of cover or financials or deadlines and accept that the food is awful and unless its urgent you'll be waiting a few months.

But I'd STILL take it over private. Because I don't want to lie in a hospital bed wondering if the surgery I just had was really necessary or if the doctor / surgeon that performed it saw an opportunity to have a big payday from an insurance company.

If its on NHS then they can and often do suggest private options if it would be faster or as an experiment. The point on the NHS is that they really don't care if you take their treatment or not but the checks and standards are extremely rigorous that they are heavily scrutinized to offer good quality care. More so in my opinion than in the private sector.


I did think about the Auxetix cuts before. Will see how my shape and angle goes but may consider down the line. There are a few other countries (other than. north america and western Europe that offer superior treatment options. You mention Thailand but Korea is world famous as a leader for many treatments, Turkey, Brazil. Apparently Spain is excellent for dentistry. We have loads of specialist Spanish dentists here.

That's one thing that's a weak link here is NHS dentistry. (Surprise surprise coming from Britain haha). And a good example of the system. You'll get the bare minimum of what you need. You don't get a dental implant you'll get a bridge. You won't get a hygienist clean you'll get a scale and polish but only if theres clinical need. And unless you're on welfare you'll have to contribute a small amount for the treatment. A lot of people do tend to go private for dental. But then again, although its no frills, you'll still get what you need on NHS.

Other one is prescriptions, for every prescription, no matter what it is, on NHS its £10 (again unless you're on welfare and then its free).

So as a baseline its a real safety net and if you want a little more than just the essentials of what you need and you can afford it you can go private with self paying / insurance.

Bare in mind that because there's a universal healthcare system in place the premiums for the private insurance are much much lower than what you guys have in the US.

I firmly believe that both systems should be available.

[whatevery]

Dude, I just wrote a very detailed reply and the system bounced me and I lost it! Sorry but I'm not rewriting it.

But the gist of it was: you brought the national rivalry into the conversation so I was defending US health care system which I think on the average is much better than what you have in England. In fact, by a mile. In fact I think you guys are not even in the league! I have so many choices here when selecting high volume highly rated professional that can implant me with his eyes closed that you can't even dream about. Levine, Clavell, Hakky, Perito and I'm not even half way through the list! All have great reviews and all implanted thousands of people in their carriers. Who do you have in Europe that could match up? Based on what I read on franktalk maybe Dr. Osmonov in Germany... and few implanters in Turkey with very mixed feedbacks in terms of their outcomes.

Our health insurance system is our only weak link and even that generally works fine and covers more than your NHS does and in very expedited fashion. We don't have to worry about waiting for years for our care unless we suffer from something life threatening. Our procedures are done when my and my doctor's schedules align. With the way I'm having it set up after I get my Medicare and buy $200/month supplemental the insurance should cover all of it.

People come here from all over the world for very complex procedures. Those that can afford it that is. I'm far from being rich. I'm very much a middle class guy. As an American I don't have to worry about paying for these complex procedures. My insurance would usually cover them. I might have to wait for an opening in a doctor's schedule. Oh well, such is life. But definitely not because my health insurance has budgetary concerns. I don't think a middle class dweller in the UK can experience such luxury unless he's willing to pay a lot for private insurer or straight forward out of pocket.

In short I wasn't criticizing the US care. I think all things being equal it's much better than what you have in UK. I was just lamenting that is wasn't perfect

I really need to learn how you do that specific quoting from someone's comment.

Look at the text control links just over the text box. See where it says Quote? Click on that and paste the text that you want to comment on between quotes.

[splitpeach]

Dude, I just wrote a very detailed reply and the system bounced me and I lost it! Sorry but I'm not rewriting it.

But the gist of it was: you brought the national rivalry into the conversation so I was defending US health care system which I think on the average is much better than what you have in England. In fact, by a mile. In fact I think you guys are not even in the league! I have so many choices here when selecting high volume highly rated professional that can implant me with his eyes closed that you can't even dream about. Levine, Clavell, Hakky, Perito and I'm not even half way through the list! All have great reviews and all implanted thousands of people in their carriers. Who do you have in Europe that could match up? Based on what I read on franktalk maybe Dr. Osmonov in Germany... and few implanters in Turkey with very mixed feedbacks in terms of their outcomes.

Our health insurance system is our only weak link and even that generally works fine and covers more than your NHS does and in very expedited fashion. We don't have to worry about waiting for years for our care unless we suffer from something life threatening. Our procedures are done when my and my doctor's schedules align. With the way I'm having it set up after I get my Medicare and buy $200/month supplemental the insurance should cover all of it.

People come here from all over the world for very complex procedures. Those that can afford it that is. I'm far from being rich. I'm very much a middle class guy. As an American I don't have to worry about paying for these complex procedures. My insurance would usually cover them. I might have to wait for an opening in a doctor's schedule. Oh well, such is life. But definitely not because my health insurance has budgetary concerns. I don't think a middle class dweller in the UK can experience such luxury unless he's willing to pay a lot for private insurer or straight forward out of pocket.

In short I wasn't criticizing the US care. I think all things being equal it's much better than what you have in UK. I was just lamenting that is wasn't perfect

I really need to learn how you do that specific quoting from someone's comment.

Look at the text control links just over the text box. See where it says Quote? Click on that and paste the text that you want to comment on between quotes.

This isnt a war of nationalism. I'm not interested in that. I don't think British healthcare is the best option. The issues clearly prove it not to be right now. In think there are going to be a number of other countries with better systems. But I definitely think it's better than the US system.

We have your system (private care with self paying / insurance) and also a very complete public healthcare system for all. We have both. You have one. We have choice. You do not. Here if you can afford private healthcare you can have it as well as still have access to free healthcare. You guys have one or the other.

The range of choice of treatment and calibre in this country of professionals is excellent. You forget we have one of the major international cities in the world in London attracting many high level professionals.

You mention implants. We have Professor Ralph who created the largest andrology department in Europe and at least three other very accomplished surgeons in Rowland Rees, Professor Vaibhav Modgil, Professor Ian Pearce. These are high volume and have all made major contributions to the field. I don't think anyone will argue that Ralph is not a leader in this field at the very least.

You have to remember that Franktalk is very US centric so a lot of users here discuss their experience in the states.

The US certainly has more diversity and can attract more leading professionals. But you also have a lot of bullshit that gets offered to patients that is unproven and doesn't work because it's lucrative.

You suggest a middle class earner would not have access to comparable care here than in the US or that costs would be excessive. This is plainly not true. You have probably the most expensive healthcare in the world and we also have some absolute luxury in hospitals. Just consider a few in this list such as King Edward Hospital, The Lister Hospital, London Clinic, London Bridge.

https://www.mytribeinsurance.co.uk/best ... -in-london

These would all be available to a middle class earner via private insurance or potentially self paying.

A guy on here had the choice of being operated on by Professor Ralph on NHS at UCLH (a nice NHS hospital) or get it done by him privately at King Edward's Hospital (which is pure luxury) right away for about £15k.

The point is he had a choice. Yes the NHS has long waits and there are no frills but it's there for everyone. Perhaps something else you should understand is that there are often separate facilities. There will be NHS hospitals and centres and there are purely private hospitals. Sometimes there are private departments within NHS hospitals but the services are kept separate.

You can often see the same professionals on NHS as you can privately.

The key point here is universal free healthcare. To me any system that doesn't have that in this day and age is not a good one. The NHS has big problems and there are other places in the world that offer universal free healthcare much better than we do. But we do offer it as well as a comparable and competitive private sector to the US albeit with less volume and diversity as would be expected from a smaller country.

I see no argument to this. With a country with as much to offer and as successful and developed as the US the fact you don't have a dual system including Universal free public healthcare is inarguably backwards and wrong.

Once again I had surgery at a modern, clean, fully equipped, nice, decorated hospital by one of the best specialists there is. The nursing staff were friendly and attentive. The food was terrible and if I hadn't participated in the trial I would have had to have waited 6 months. Ive been able to see members of the surrgery team last minute since and have video footage of my surgery. I did not pay a single penny, was never asked for a single penny, never had any concern that I would be asked for a single penny, did not fill out a single insurance form and had no concerns as to whether my treatment would ever be covered or not.

That should be available to everyone (ideally without the bad food and wait times)

[whatevery]

Ok ok

You have to remember that Franktalk is very US centric so a lot of users here discuss their experience in the states.

Sorry, but there is more than enough non US presence on franktalk to draw conclusions on who is who outside of the US too. For example, from being on franktalk I know that Chris Love in Australia is a top dog.

The food was terrible

I hear you, hospital food is the best in the world the world over

if I hadn't participated in the trial I would have had to have waited 6 months.

Your implantation was part of the trial? What kind of a trial if I may? I thought Rigicon was already approved in the UK...