Its in... Mid 30s implanted with Rigicon Infla10 AX on NHS UK

[whatevery]

I think it's an intense debate because of the disparity. You have some of the best healthcare in the world and most of the best surgeons and doctors but such insecurity and restricted access.

I can't think of another country with such excellent treatment options with such harsh consequences if you've not absolutely succeeded in life.

You can argue that people don't deserve a car, a decent home or clean and safe to live, maybe even decent food to eat unless they can afford it, but healthcare should be something everyone has access to without having to deal with the stress of bills as well as making sure their colostomy bag doesn't get caught up in the chemo machine.

Our poor are generally well taken care of in terms of health care because they don't have to deal with private insurance companies. They're on our equivalent of your NHS but unlike you they don't have to wait for specialist care. They're only limited by their state borders. For example, I live in Boston, and if I'd be poor and decided to implant I'd be limited to Drs. Kramer and Munarriz. Oh my God, what a tragedy, eh?

If you're a military veteran you have a universal health care for life but only through the VA system, which, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, is usually limited to the severely limited VA health care system, but it's adequate. I, for example, usually use the VA system but probably not for penile implantation ...although, as of last week, if I decide to go with CX who knows.

If you're well off, well, then you're well off.

If you're a member of so called "middle class" however (i.e. the silent majority), that's when it can get complex. If you work for a large to mid-size company you still should be ok, again depending on what plan you chose when you start working for them. If you decided to save some money when you were selecting your company benefits package, well, then who knows right? If you entered into a good plan however you should be ok.

Now, if you own a pizza place or a flower shop on the corner or you're self-employed, etc. that's when things might get interesting. You got to get yourself health insurance through sliding scale choices on Obamacare exchange. The more you pay the more health care options you get. If you decided to save money and shit hits the fan... hm.

To summarize: if you want to have carefree access to the US health care you either got to be rich or poor. If you're neither than health care coverage anxiety could possibly make you a health care dependent.

Oh yea, almost forgot, if you're over 65 then you can get yourself on the senior care, called Medicare, which, while not free, is generally manageable. Unless you need to go to the nursing home. Then after you spent all you money and assets the government would begin treating you as "the poor" and you'd qualify for a free nursing home care of varied quality.

I think that about sums it up. If anybody wants to add anything...

[Kodixx]

whatevery, sure it's settled everywhere else. That's why people from socialized medicine countries stream in here for care. And consistently complain about long wait times and delayed important treatments.

Like I said before, both approaches have their pros and cons. That there's no question that rising costs are straining everything. And no, big bad "corporate greed" isn't even the main culprit. But to say everything here is junk, and it's "rainbows and unicorns" in all the socialized medicine systems is just nonsense.

- Chuck

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that that the US is the only country I know of with intense health care delivery system related debate. Other societies are basically settled on their structure. It seems to me that in other countries everything is much more algorithmic and logical. Right from the start you know what you're in for. If you want to avoid surgeries on the other hand the US probably would be the last place where you'd want to get your health care at.

[Kodixx]

whatevery, yeah that hasn't been my experience. I've worked for small and large companies. I've owned my own small company. And I've been "middle class" most of my life. And -- I've always had great healthcare. Been there, done that, and know that "got to be rich or poor" is not correct.

- Chuck

To summarize: if you want to have carefree access to the US health care you either got to be rich or poor. If you're neither than health care coverage anxiety could possibly make you a health care dependent.

[whatevery]

people from socialized medicine countries stream in here for care

I actually disagree with that Chuck. This is a legend that's often being pushed on TV here in the states but it's not true. People from socialized medicine countries don't stream in here for care. People that have access to world-wide care go where top rate specialists are.

My bud here in Boston found out that top rate specialist in whatever it is that he was looking for was in Finland so he went to Finland to get his care. Naturally this is a bit bigger country than Finland so there's be more top rate specialist here than in Finland by default. People generally come to the states for surgeries and diagnostics and to see particular doctor if that doctor is known to be the tops. That's it. The US is the last place where you'd want to come for prophylactic medicine.

Market forces ensure that doctors fight for patients. I just experienced a bit of it on my own persona. So in some way socialized medicine is better because with socialized medicine you have less of that.

That being said generally speaking medical expertise in the US is probably the best in the world which is reflected on Franktalk and the options that we get compared to our brethren elsewhere.

whatevery, yeah that hasn't been my experience. I've worked for small and large companies. I've owned my own small company. And I've been "middle class" most of my life. And -- I've always had great healthcare. Been there, done that, and know that "got to be rich or poor" is not correct.

- Chuck

To summarize: if you want to have carefree access to the US health care you either got to be rich or poor. If you're neither than health care coverage anxiety could possibly make you a health care dependent.

Well, that's your experience and actually it's mine too. However I know people that have different experiences. Most of the people here are ok. There's sufficient enough minority however that isn't, and unlike in more orderly places, our health insurance system is a maze and have no rhyme and reason to it. I described various aspects of it in my previous post.

It has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. Sometimes one make more sense, sometimes the other. Societies always pick and choose from both. For example in the US you get Social Security even if you're a Rockefeller. That's socialism. The same as Medicare. Road infrastructure in the US is a straight forward socialism. There are plenty more. Not a big deal. There is always a mix. Maybe our health care should be more socialistic, maybe it shouldn't.

One thing I know for a fact: things that work always get copied by others. That's market at work. Nobody copies our health insurance system. Nobody. Everybody copies everybody else's but ours. That should tell you more than anything else.

[splitpeach]

The main factor in the US as both a positive and negative is money. You attract top medical practitioners and incentivize advancement because it is lucrative in the US. But the fact that it's lucrative makes it difficult for many patients to afford and access.

That's the catch 22. There is excellent healthcare and probably most top surgeons are in the US but that's because it's the best paying country because there is no universal healthcare system like other countries.

I don't think there is much healthcare tourism in the US for any other reason than necessity. I think people only go because either that's where some better care is or people are desperate and want to try some unproven experimental treatment (that likely won't work but they'll still pay a fortune for)

I had that with the PShot in New York. Quickly realised why it and shockwave treatment isn't available on the NHS.

I don't know about Medicare etc. Sounds great if you live in New York, Massachusetts, California, Florida and maybe Arizona but maybe not so much Idaho, Mississippi, Wyoming, etc.

[whatevery]

Medicare is the same everywhere. It's a federal program. Unless you're poor you pay about $450/month, or about $200/month + 20% of your outpatient medical bills + small drugs copay. If you're poor you don't pay shit.

You can use any medical services that take Medicare which is 99% of the US medical professionals. For example all of the high, or not so high, volume US implanters that you read about here take Medicare, despite of Medicare rates being much lower than market. For example, average virtual appointment with high-volume US implanter is $300 (I think). However, if you come to them via Medicare it would be $130, of which you might be responsible for 20%. Not bad eh for our underwhelming health care delivery system?