Length Outcome Theory

[edjohn]

Maybe it’s too simple to call a theory, but what about this… what if the difference we see in length outcomes comes down to the difference in how much the CC wants to stretch vs how much the crus does?

If the CC is naturally pliable in an individual, he sees drastic length gains (measurable), and if the crus (i.e. anchor point of the CC) is pliable, he sees little length gain despite vigorous cycling?

Surgeons will say “most guys see .5 to 2cm gain on revision” but if the crus has been pushed deeper, this doesn’t mean they get a massively longer penis in practice.

I though of this because sometimes I notice pain in the perineum without any in the glans upon cycling… anybody experienced this?

[AntonS]

Maybe it’s too simple to call a theory, but what about this… what if the difference we see in length outcomes comes down to the difference in how much the CC wants to stretch vs how much the crus does?

If the CC is naturally pliable in an individual, he sees drastic length gains (measurable), and if the crus (i.e. anchor point of the CC) is pliable, he sees little length gain despite vigorous cycling?

Surgeons will say “most guys see .5 to 2cm gain on revision” but if the crus has been pushed deeper, this doesn’t mean they get a massively longer penis in practice.

I though of this because sometimes I notice pain in the perineum without any in the glans upon cycling… anybody experienced this?

I have the same thing. It hurts at the ends of the proximal part, but there is no pain at the ends of the distal part. But for me, this is related to scars on the tunica in the distal part. How much length have you regained since you started cycling?

[edjohn]

Maybe it’s too simple to call a theory, but what about this… what if the difference we see in length outcomes comes down to the difference in how much the CC wants to stretch vs how much the crus does?

If the CC is naturally pliable in an individual, he sees drastic length gains (measurable), and if the crus (i.e. anchor point of the CC) is pliable, he sees little length gain despite vigorous cycling?

Surgeons will say “most guys see .5 to 2cm gain on revision” but if the crus has been pushed deeper, this doesn’t mean they get a massively longer penis in practice.

I though of this because sometimes I notice pain in the perineum without any in the glans upon cycling… anybody experienced this?

I have the same thing. It hurts at the ends of the proximal part, but there is no pain at the ends of the distal part. But for me, this is related to scars on the tunica in the distal part. How much length have you regained since you started cycling?

I didn’t lose anything from surgery but if I am gaining it’s not fast. I have only really cycled a few weeks though. Clavell likes us to start later.

When you say scars in the distal part do you mean you were injecting close to the glans and developed built in “pads” essentially?

[prguy3]

Maybe it’s too simple to call a theory, but what about this… what if the difference we see in length outcomes comes down to the difference in how much the CC wants to stretch vs how much the crus does?

If the CC is naturally pliable in an individual, he sees drastic length gains (measurable), and if the crus (i.e. anchor point of the CC) is pliable, he sees little length gain despite vigorous cycling?

Surgeons will say “most guys see .5 to 2cm gain on revision” but if the crus has been pushed deeper, this doesn’t mean they get a massively longer penis in practice.

I though of this because sometimes I notice pain in the perineum without any in the glans upon cycling… anybody experienced this?

I have the same thing. It hurts at the ends of the proximal part, but there is no pain at the ends of the distal part. But for me, this is related to scars on the tunica in the distal part. How much length have you regained since you started cycling?

I didn’t lose anything from surgery but if I am gaining it’s not fast. I have only really cycled a few weeks though. Clavell likes us to start later.

When you say scars in the distal part do you mean you were injecting close to the glans and developed built in “pads” essentially?

You have a 26cm implant. The longest for Coloplast is 28cm. You mention you are back to original size. Honest question: are you aspiring for longer? In your shoes, I would not want any longer. Longer cylinder means requiring more fluid for your reservoir (which is already close to maxing out) and theoretical earlier failure. In your situation, I would be grateful for my huge (pun intended) win and live my life stress free. Congrats on your successful outcome, brother!

[edjohn]

You have a 26cm implant. The longest for Coloplast is 28cm. You mention you are back to original size. Honest question: are you aspiring for longer? In your shoes, I would not want any longer. Longer cylinder means requiring more fluid for your reservoir (which is already close to maxing out) and theoretical earlier failure. In your situation, I would be grateful for my huge (pun intended) win and live my life stress free. Congrats on your successful outcome, brother!

So Clavell said directly that he filled the 125mL res and added approximately 15 more to minimize the chance of bottoming out on fluid... he says he sees guys cycle too aggressively and empty the pump too soon and essentially overstretch the implant/CC and end up with less than 100% firmness and a dead pump. He specifically advised caution on cycling so hardness is not lost... which of course we men will typically ignore. If the Titan stretches the CC too much and I run out of fluid so be it... I'll get a revision and upsize. My pumped length was almost an inch over my typical erect length which tempts me to just keep chasing gains. There is no reason not to (from a male perspective).

Logically, if he has to replace it with a 28cm (and trim a little if necessary) all he needs to do is add a little extra fluid. Guys like us don't care if we can't deflate to a wrinkled up 0% fill. It's still relative.

[ElbowRoom]

So Clavell said directly that he filled the 125mL res and added approximately 15 more to minimize the chance of bottoming out on fluid... he says he sees guys cycle too aggressively and empty the pump too soon and essentially overstretch the implant/CC and end up with less than 100% firmness and a dead pump. He specifically advised caution on cycling so hardness is not lost... which of course we men will typically ignore. If the Titan stretches the CC too much and I run out of fluid so be it... I'll get a revision and upsize. My pumped length was almost an inch over my typical erect length which tempts me to just keep chasing gains. There is no reason not to (from a male perspective).

Logically, if he has to replace it with a 28cm (and trim a little if necessary) all he needs to do is add a little extra fluid. Guys like us don't care if we can't deflate to a wrinkled up 0% fill. It's still relative.

I have a 28cm Titan, and Dr. Hakky also slightly overfilled my reservoir to make sure there's sufficient fluid. Honestly, I knew I was between a 26cm and 28cm, but I hoped for a 26. The reason is when I need a revision any increase in size will come down to RTEs, which is sub-optimal. Not the worst problem to have, but it's good to have some room for growth down the line.

Also, I will state that a 28cm implant does have issues. It's hard to hide when "flaccid" (in quotes because it's still pretty firm when empty). Also when exercising you need to secure it to prevent it moving around too much, and at least so fat at nine weeks I still put a baby sock over it during exercise to prevent chafing/sensitivity issues.

A big dick is great in the bedroom, but it can be a hassle elsewhere.

[edjohn]

Also, I will state that a 28cm implant does have issues. It's hard to hide when "flaccid" (in quotes because it's still pretty firm when empty). Also when exercising you need to secure it to prevent it moving around too much, and at least so fat at nine weeks I still put a baby sock over it during exercise to prevent chafing/sensitivity issues.

You are damn right... there is no hiding. The Dr said as much and he was right.

[Waiting789]

You have a 26cm implant. The longest for Coloplast is 28cm. You mention you are back to original size. Honest question: are you aspiring for longer? In your shoes, I would not want any longer. Longer cylinder means requiring more fluid for your reservoir (which is already close to maxing out) and theoretical earlier failure. In your situation, I would be grateful for my huge (pun intended) win and live my life stress free. Congrats on your successful outcome, brother!

So Clavell said directly that he filled the 125mL res and added approximately 15 more to minimize the chance of bottoming out on fluid... he says he sees guys cycle too aggressively and empty the pump too soon and essentially overstretch the implant/CC and end up with less than 100% firmness and a dead pump. He specifically advised caution on cycling so hardness is not lost... which of course we men will typically ignore. If the Titan stretches the CC too much and I run out of fluid so be it... I'll get a revision and upsize. My pumped length was almost an inch over my typical erect length which tempts me to just keep chasing gains. There is no reason not to (from a male perspective).

Logically, if he has to replace it with a 28cm (and trim a little if necessary) all he needs to do is add a little extra fluid. Guys like us don't care if we can't deflate to a wrinkled up 0% fill. It's still relative.

So,according to that theory of Dr Clavell and if I have understood correctly, if you cycle too much it can produce lost of firmness of the pump as consequence? Am I right?

That could explain some post I have seen on the forum

[LetoMan]

Maybe it’s too simple to call a theory, but what about this… what if the difference we see in length outcomes comes down to the difference in how much the CC wants to stretch vs how much the crus does?

The difference in what we see in length outcomes is from the difference in the sizes of the implants that are put in us.

There is some marginal difference that comes from our different anatomies, basically how deep our crus is compared to others.

But that’s it. Other than the claim that length-expanding implants like the LGX may be able to expand a bit, cycling isn’t “causing” gains. Gains are coming because the implant is unfolding itself. Cycling may accelerate that process, or even allow it to happen, but it is not causing the gains.

Two caveats:

First, please note that the stretchiness of your tunica has A LOT to do with how big your dick is going to wind up but it is the stretchiness at the time of implant that matters. Once you are stretched and fitted with an implant, the length of the implant is all that matters. That’s why VED use prior to implantation is important.

Second, girth expansion is a different story. Standard inflatable implants DO expand girth-wise, and cycling contributes to that. There are still limits, but they are primarily related to your tunica and presumably to the extent to which the implant can actually stretch.

Back to length: There have been multiple studies that show that virtually all guys get to slightly larger than what they were as measured by a stretch test prior to surgery. There is no evidence that there is some variation based on how often and how intensely they cycle. If they don’t get there, it’s likely an implant sizing issue, rather than a failure to cycle or cycling wrong.

It’s sorta like if you have a bunch of shirts in different sizes: S, M, L, XL. You can fold those shirts until they all occupy roughly the same surface area, but when you unfold them they are going to be the same size they were before folding. The unfolding (which is like the gains from cycling) is not making them bigger. And the difference between the surface area of a folded shirt and an unfolded one comes down to how small you folded it vs. how big it actually is.

I keep on saying this because guys keep on fretting about cycling: doing it enough, doing it early, doing it intensely, whatever. Guys hear one guy gained two inches from cycling, and think that if they just cycle more or better they will also gain two inches. But the reality is the guy who gained two inches gained it because his implant was bunched up or otherwise not occupying those two inches. Another guy’s implant might not be bunched up at all, and he’s gonna gain very little because he is already mostly extended. What you gain is dependent on how much implant you got and how bunched up it is after implantation.

I think we persist in thinking cycling is causal of gains because we want to have agency in it. But we don’t: we get measured on the operating table and wind up with what the doc gives us based on that measurement. You can cycle as much as you want and as hard as you want, that isn’t going to change.

Really, I’m not trying to take away hope… cycle, and hope for the best. But guys should be aware that it is really not something they should fret about, or think that if they do it wrong they are going to affect their dick size. The best case scenario for what cycling does is cut down on the time it takes for your implant to extend. But again, the evidence is that virtually all guys get there eventually, so unless you are just not using your dick at all, you are going to get there eventually.

TL, DR:

1) Almost all guys get bigger compared to just after implantation, usually getting up to a bit bigger than their stretchable size at the time of implant, and otherwise fully extending their implant.

2) Cycling probably helps you get there, you should do it.

3) Cycling will not make you bigger than your implant, except for maybe a small bit on length expanding models.

4) Other than that, relax and enjoy your hard dick.

[edjohn]

But that’s it. Other than the claim that length-expanding implants like the LGX may be able to expand a bit, cycling isn’t “causing” gains. Gains are coming because the implant is unfolding itself. Cycling may accelerate that process, or even allow it to happen, but it is not causing the gains.

I am sorry but your assumptions are just factually incorrect. The vast majority of anecdotes may support this, but physically, every implant out their expands in all directions. We have surgeon's comments as well as studies reporting increase in length over pre-op lengths. Again, not a lot, but as someone who has gained a lot of size just from PE over the years, I know first hand that the CC does what you want it to given time and pressure (making diamonds).

We are mostly in the dark about precisely what causes so many differences in outcome, but we know, for example, that the Titan is spec'd based on it's dimensions at 15inHg, but the pump is capable of a bit more pressure, which is why it was possible to exceed the listed dimensions just pumping one up on the table.

The vast difference in results is likely 90% down to aggressiveness with measuring, but many guys have a different stretched length than erect length, which means that yes they may get a slightly oversized implant that has a little unfolding to do, but ALSO, if they cycle hard enough they can potentially exceed even the measured dimension based on what we know about the hydraulics.

Still, my theory is about which direction that unfolding actually happens, and besides the undersizing issue, I bet most guys who fail to increase in length are just digging into the crus and would benefit from VED with their cycling.