Post Op Gains

[frank66665]

...with a hard 8.75" x 5.7" dick you're not a man? then someone with a 6" x 5" dick should jump off the brooklyn bridge?

Oh, about this, in no way am I implying I care about the size of another man's penis or stating anything about its relation to his masculinity. I obviously don't give a fuck what size his dick is (though I have looked but not found comparable sizes to me on grindr. Maybe one day).

But you cannot deny that the size of each man's penis is of inherent importance to himself and his psychology. This is a giant reason why the consensus on this forum that before I got here used to be that implants always cause size loss and how much of it depends on the skills of the surgeon who "undersized" or "oversized" you needs to permanantly die a quick and painful death (surgeon is only capable of giving you the right size that matches your real, natural erection if you use a VED for months before the implant to treat or heal fibrosis, which is also the direct cause of your erection problems). And size loss was caused by inadequate exercise post-implant. Nicely this study speaks directly to that fact - many doctors told patients to cycle for 15 minutes once or twice a day. Many took that literally and had bad results. This study in this post proves it actually does work if you simply add a VED to the mix. That's why it's perfect and in no way "cryptic." This is also why I spend a lot of time writing in posts like this so men with erection problems need not fear implants anymore. If any of you lost size and that still bothers you, it doesn't fucking matter - start exercising it now and it'll be a whole lot bigger come your next revision.

If you want to clearly understand why men care so much about their dicks, this is why. By Dr. Alex Comfort in his seminal book, "The Joy of Sex" (1972):

Preoccupation with the size of their genitals is as built-in biologically to men (it is a 'dominance signal', like a deer's antlers) as sensitivity about their breasts and figure is to women. That, however, is its only importance. The 'average' penis is about 6 inches overall when erect and about 3 1/2 inches round, but penises come in all sizes - larger ones are spectacular but no more effective except as visual stimuli. Smaller ones work equally well in most positions. Accordingly, excessive preoccupation with size is an irrational anxiety, on which quacks batten one can't increase it, any more than one can increase stature. Girls should learn not to comment on it except favorably, for fear of creating a lasting hang-up - men should learn not to give it a second thought.** The few cases where male genitalia are really infantile go with major gland disturbances and are treatable but rare.

if you are convinced of your beliefs I leave you to your beliefs, I with a penis of 8", but also of 7" or 6" inches would never do ved, are you convinced that the implant will not break before expected?, no one will ever be able to say that it will not break before, at the same time we are talking about a mechanical device, consequently every mechanical device is exposed to wear and tear that leads to breakage, this is an irrefutable thing

[2435tjklAS]

...with a hard 8.75" x 5.7" dick you're not a man? then someone with a 6" x 5" dick should jump off the brooklyn bridge?

Oh, about this, in no way am I implying I care about the size of another man's penis or stating anything about its relation to his masculinity. I obviously don't give a fuck what size his dick is (though I have looked but not found comparable sizes to me on grindr. Maybe one day).

But you cannot deny that the size of each man's penis is of inherent importance to himself and his psychology. This is a giant reason why the consensus on this forum that before I got here used to be that implants always cause size loss and how much of it depends on the skills of the surgeon who "undersized" or "oversized" you needs to permanantly die a quick and painful death (surgeon is only capable of giving you the right size that matches your real, natural erection if you use a VED for months before the implant to treat or heal fibrosis, which is also the direct cause of your erection problems). And size loss was caused by inadequate exercise post-implant. Nicely this study speaks directly to that fact - many doctors told patients to cycle for 15 minutes once or twice a day. Many took that literally and had bad results. This study in this post proves it actually does work if you simply add a VED to the mix. That's why it's perfect and in no way "cryptic." This is also why I spend a lot of time writing in posts like this so men with erection problems need not fear implants anymore. If any of you lost size and that still bothers you, it doesn't fucking matter - start exercising it now and it'll be a whole lot bigger come your next revision.

If you want to clearly understand why men care so much about their dicks, this is why. By Dr. Alex Comfort in his seminal book, "The Joy of Sex" (1972):

Preoccupation with the size of their genitals is as built-in biologically to men (it is a 'dominance signal', like a deer's antlers) as sensitivity about their breasts and figure is to women. That, however, is its only importance. The 'average' penis is about 6 inches overall when erect and about 3 1/2 inches round, but penises come in all sizes - larger ones are spectacular but no more effective except as visual stimuli. Smaller ones work equally well in most positions. Accordingly, excessive preoccupation with size is an irrational anxiety, on which quacks batten one can't increase it, any more than one can increase stature. Girls should learn not to comment on it except favorably, for fear of creating a lasting hang-up - men should learn not to give it a second thought.** The few cases where male genitalia are really infantile go with major gland disturbances and are treatable but rare.

if you are convinced of your beliefs I leave you to your beliefs, I with a penis of 8", but also of 7" or 6" inches would never do ved, are you convinced that the implant will not break before expected?, no one will ever be able to say that it will not break before, at the same time we are talking about a mechanical device, consequently every mechanical device is exposed to wear and tear that leads to breakage, this is an irrefutable thing

I don't understand how anyone could possibly call the statement that VEDs are safe and effective post-implant as "my beliefs." Starting the page in this post right before your comment is me citing and including the full-text from many authoritative sources, i.e., real doctors who went to med school and know how to research to find real data that speak directly to the benefits and report no complications occurring of VEDs post.

My doctor, specialist urologist Dr. Hakky, also supports VEDs post-implants and tells me which one to use. He has a lot of experience. Many, many other medical professionals have experience and support this recovery process. They a'int doing it to get paid, or to hurt you to do your revision, I promise.

There's probably been newer studies released since these that I will find soon but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I must ask, why are you so terrified that a VED might break something? You know the same doctors can fucking fix it, probably pretty soon too, and probably with the help of insurance? Is a <1% chance of a month with no sex way too much of a burden to risk actually making your dick bigger?

I swear it's like people here have the perspective that implant breakage = permanent dick breakage. It does not. The wonders of modern medicine can fix that shit. Your dick is not fragile or sacred, despite you probably thinking it is throughout your entire life.

There's this also:

Our postoperative rehabilitation program is feasible and should be recommended after prothesis surgery in order to increase overall satisfaction with the procedure. Penile postoperative dimensional outcomes were statistically significant improved and complications were negligible (Antonini et al., 2020).

Yeah using VEDs after implant is a stupid personal belief of a retard, obviously.

[Handyman]

Does pumping up w VED cut into your time spent looking for someplace to use your bionic dick?

I'm just happy mine works again. I was 6 on good day. Now more like 4.5 or 5 but Useful inches and no time wasted VED pumping.

[edjohn]

If you want to clearly understand why men care so much about their dicks, this is why. By Dr. Alex Comfort in his seminal book, "The Joy of Sex" (1972):

Great book, great quote!

Also interested in the possibility of gaining length over time with implants... i.e. getting revisions as needed. It's not advertised, of course, but when it comes to PE, what doc doesn't know doesn't kill him, right?

Does pumping up w VED cut into your time spent looking for someplace to use your bionic dick?

Whenever I have a particularly successful weekend with cockrings or clamping or even pumping, my girth is at least an inch extra for days afterwards... I know it's edema but it doesn't really look any different than filler guys are getting. If you like girth, or she likes girth... it's definitely worth it whether there's an implant inside or not.

[2435tjklAS]

Sorry I’ve been slow to reply again. Still dealing with…stuff.

Tried to include the most relevant and important points here. Tell me if I missed anything.

That being said, it is totally possible that the median ICI remains the same after 48 weeks, even if some patients got larger penises after VED. The Median is not the same as the average. It is likely, based on the numbers they provide, that the average penis size grew, but the median didn't.

Median means the middle person. If you want to measure the median height of a student classroom for example. Lets say there are 21 students. There are the 10 tallest, 10 shortest, and 1 in the middle. The 1 in the middle is the median. If the tallest guy in the class is 6 feet, or 7 feet, does not change anything, as long as the one in the middle stays the same. Same for the shortest, does not change anything.

An average is different, if the tallest guy is 8 feet tall or 6 feet tall, it will completely change the average. This does not happen in the median calculation. The reason median is used, is to eliminate outliars.

I hope that makes sense.

I don’t understand this. Honest question - how would a median remaining the same not prove exactly what your argument here intended to prove? That if a bunch of men get an implant and used a VED post-surgery, their median or mean or mode or whatever other term I don’t fully understand remaining the same means the VED did not lead to the advertised result of changing the size of their penis in any way?

I can tell you the list of reasons why the particular methods used in this study did increase their sizes but not by very much. First reason:

”In this prospective study we report our results regarding penile dimensions and patient satisfaction outcomes after 1 year of follow-up from AMS™LGX700® penile prosthesis implant with 6 months of vacuum erectile device therapy (Antonini et al., 2020).”

The patients were told to use a VED for 5 minutes twice a day. More noteworthy is they were told to do this for only the first 6 months (yet measured after a year? I guess the last 6 months patients only cycled when being erect was required?), which is not an adequate time frame compared to a year or longer. I was implanted on November 2nd, 2021. 8.75” long the day before surgery. Five months and 20 days later on April 22nd, 2022 I took a measurement pic of a tiny bit over 8.5”. Full disclosure is that I later learned my results were exaggerated from unknowingly bending over to some degree when standing up as straight as I did before surgery would have been below 8.5”. Had I used a VED for the first 6 months and for the following 6 months only inflated before sex, I would have cycled 0 times, lol. If I inflated for masturbation it would be much more cycling, but I wouldn’t expect similar results to what happened from my exercise minimum of 30 minutes or so every day for an entire year.

So, after 6 months of much more aggressive methods I lost length. After approximately 11 months I had gained about .25” (.635 cms) from only inflation with zero arousal. When measured while watching porn like I did to reach the 8.75” starting number, I had gained .75” (1.7cms). My stretched flaccid length is a measurement I cannot intentionally or unintentionally fake or exaggerate like my erect length and I have proof of it also increasing by .75"

Second reason: the range of their preop ICI and 48-weeks follow-up did increase.

“The final ones do increase their range from before. ICI started 17cm with range between 11–19, and 48 weeks still reported 17cm length, but the range increased up to 13–23”

So, why did ICI size stay the same after 48-weeks? Because it didn't. The ranges prove that at least one patient increased their length by at least 2cms. Another patient increased their length by at least 4cms. For girth, one patient 1cm increase, another 1 patient 1cm more also, which is less than I would expect and I don’t know why it happened.

Third reason: The median baseline length for these men pre-surgery was 14cm. After 6 months of VED usage and 6 more months of who the heck even knows what they did their size increased to 17cm (over 1 inch). This mean the study did not prove LGX makes men's dicks inherently and physiologically bigger than they were before. but it sure as shit proved it made their dicks much bigger now every time they use them.

That being said, another weakness in this study is that there is no control group. We simply do not know what would happen if a bunch of other guys were doing the same study cycling the same amount of time, but without VED. So we cannot compare the difference.

These are solid reasons we can thank newbie for mentioning. But they do happen to be irrelevant for this particular study.

We have far more data than needed for there to even be a control group. Hundreds of men on FrankTalk proved that if they only cycled for 5-15 minutes twice a day like with zero VED usage like their doctors told them to, they would have significantly lost size. The patients in this study did the exact same but additionally used a VED for 10 minutes daily.

And yes I made up these results but they are based provable data - the findings for the control group would have reported something like this:



FrankTalk is your control group.

Also we cannot compare to another group with a non-length expanding implant (non-LGX). Again, this is another weakness in the study.

No one is attempting to compare the results of VED usage to every other implant that exists. The study and our entire discussion is only about the LGX. Not a relevant weakness.

Since this is likely an AMS sponsored study, it would seem logical that they want to show the best results possible in order to sell their device.

Turns out, your assumptions is wrong (sorry for saying the “W” word )

Here’s what’s right:


IJIR is far too reputable to publish a study funded by Boston Scientific and not telling us about it. They fact that they did not is proof the company who makes this product did not pay a dime.

Additionally, I do understand your point that who funded medical studies can contribute to the results but I do not believe it be true about this particular topic regarding penile implants. If it’s some expensive and unproven and ineffective product few doctors would recommend or let alone base their entire specialist careers off of it’s not the same as the studies “proving” the effectiveness of a device I wasted $10,000 on buying. When I asked my neurologist if there’s any truth to NeuroOptimal being an effective neurofeedback device that will improve my brain’s abilities, he stared me dead in the face and couldn’t say a single word. Because it’s shit that at best has a placebo effect rather than real results. Implants are much different.

I hope the above helps. Just a heads up, if you plan to continue the whole "you are wrong" and similar, i don't have any interest in replying.

Cheers

On a personal level I want to clarify that regardless of how any of my writings might sound or what they seem to imply of me being hostile or critical of your directly or personally…can people understand my brain is not capable of knowing or remembering a single thing about absolutely anyone here? That includes you, Discovernew. I “know” you’re a guy. I know you got an implant. I know you are respected here for consistently posting or commenting valuable information to the community. That is all I know. I can assume more about you than others because of the mutual time spent in this discussion. I told you directly your discovery and questions that no one else even noticed of the pre-op ICI numbers being the same as the post-surgery mean numbers was great, intelligent and analytical that led to me finding the answers that I first admitted were over my head. And I respect for your that. For 99% of other members here if I ever replied or messaged them before I no longer have a clue that we’ve talked and what we talked about or recall their username. Plus, if I read your posts or comments on other topics in the future I'm unlikely to even look at your username because the text is important to me rather than who wrote them since the author wouldn't mean anything to me. Taking what I say on FrankTalk personally is not fair or reasonable with regards to my natural communications that are medically disabled giving me no idea who any of you are.

[2435tjklAS]

Does pumping up w VED cut into your time spent looking for someplace to use your bionic dick?

This is a silly argument. The entire point of this study and long discussion is about using a VED for 5 minutes twice a day. That had real results and cut no one's time.

I'm just happy mine works again. I was 6 on good day. Now more like 4.5 or 5 but Useful inches and no time wasted VED pumping.

I’m sorry and hope I don't regret writing this but while that is great that you are happy with your implant despite losing size, your wife is not as happy as she could have been. She's thrilled you can get and maintain an erection now. She is not thrilled that you could have cured your ED and remained at 6” or even larger.

Here is all the proof you need to the truth of that claim about the importance of size to women's sexual pleasure from an ex-girlfriend of my internet friend who measures 4”x3.75”. She kept dating him but found a man at the gym only for fucking, though after a little while broke up with him because sex was “pointless.”



My explanation: During sex, different parts of the vagina respond to pressure - some parts are just a couple inches in, others much deeper. Smaller dicks give less stimulation. Bigger ones give more. A 6" dick usually feels better than a 5.5" one, and 6.5" is usually better than 6". That and the amount of girth is not rocket science. It’s numerical. This reality is a result of tens of thousands of years of evolutionary biology regarding the sexual selection used by humans due to the biological imperative of effectively mating so our species will “live long and multiply.” Humans did this very well for all the years dating back to when we were apes.

Sure, women have told us so many times that “SiZE doESn’T MaTTer” we totally believe them, but we should all know that’s social conditioning of what they feel comfortable sharing with men, which is not very much at all when concerning their sexual interests. Yes some women have different preferences than others and might truthfully enjoy smaller sizes. And if a woman has been with, I don’t know, like 15 men, all of whom had roughly completely average sizes of about 5.5”x4.6”, a size being .5" bigger didn’t matter and who was better was a result of the man’s skills in bed and personal connections. But if she fucked a decently skilled man of 7”x5.5”, she would feel more sexual pleasure. Keep in mind that the importantly the only thing that really matters is if she told you she enjoys your penis and came back for more in the past and present she is being genuine, but privately has an interest in bigger. The most meaningful comment a girl told me recently after our first time together was "I found one..." Think about that she meant.

The word “preference” gets thrown around so much here, when it hides the real truth: bigger usually feels better, and humans rarely don’t say it out loud because of how much it can offend and depress men of this very important yet completely uncontrollable number many were entirely lucky or unlucky to be born with.

Also interested in the possibility of gaining length over time with implants... i.e. getting revisions as needed. It's not advertised, of course, but when it comes to PE, what doc doesn't know doesn't kill him, right?

This is the most important question few here on FrankTalk talk about or seem to realize. Please listen to this Handyman. Yes, first, LGX and Titan implants are scientifically proven to increase length and girth if a VED is used for a few months before surgery to treat or heal the fibrosis caused by ED which allows any surgeon to fit you with an implant best meeting your real, natural penis size from when you were a horny 22 year old (note that taking hundreds or thousands mgs of Viagra frequently for months will have the same result and requires no VED use ((and yes I know I repeat many of these things, but they feel meaningful and most of my writings are tl;dr to others)). Also VEDs used post-surgery once or twice a day works. Technically Titan has been proven to increase your size only from aggressive cycling and no VED usage. My uneducated belief is 30 minutes once or twice a day is more than enough usage. Second, yes, I learned this from an important and trustworthy FrankTalk member whose username I can’t recall but I could look up, though it’s currently taking me too long to find the relevant post to remind me. Anyway, yeah: if your first implant can increase your size the second one can increase it further. And the third. And so on.

Most important to you, Handyman, while I have zero knowledge of the effect on your size from the prostate surgery, I assume you were about 5” before implant and are now 4.5”. But...you don’t have to be that way. Nothing in life is permanent. You can 100% get back to 5” or even a bit larger. How? Start using a VED now. Also traction therapy devices are worth it. Here’s proof that it will work on men who got an implant years ago and want to regain what they lost: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20117&p=185488#p185488

Next is also important to you, Handyman, and many, many other mens here:

2435, people do have sex with injections all the time, in fact people in this forum have used it for many years effectively for having sex So, it is a valid way to compare their pre-op injection size , to their post op. Which in this case, is the same (median 17 cm vs median 17cm).

Why can't you hear me?

I do know why you and many others on FrankTalk cannot hear me. The reason is because they have decided this is literally the hill they wish to die on. Men have a tendency of being unable and unwilling to acknowledge or admit they possibly made a mistake and could have done something better. When it regards their penises, that tendency increases ridiculously even larger.

But my personal wish is that while few here on FrankTalk who lost size will ever make comments about attempting a newer and better recovery strategy, I hope they do it privately, and I hope future members do not die on any hills related to having a smaller penis than before that will not happen with proper treatment. And remember, if your recovery efforts could have been improved 10 years ago, no one cares - you can get everything back plus even a little more now. Nothing is stopping anyone from spending 15-30 minutes once or twice a day using traction devices and VEDs to regain what no man truly wants to lose.

My doctor, specialist urologist Dr. Hakky, also supports VEDs post-implants and tells me which one to use. He has a lot of experience. Many, many other medical professionals have experience and support this recovery process. They a'int doing it to get paid, or to hurt you to do your revision, I promise.

A better way to say this is not only that my implant specialist surgeons tells me to use a VED, it’s also that these implant specialists tell you the exact same thing as Dr. Hakky and many other highly respected specialists often discussed on FrankTalk:









That's fine if you don't want to listen to me. I am not qualified. But you should listen to them, because they are. I will soon spend the time of finding more current studies that I expect to exist.

[ragingbull]

If post op gains comes to a standstill, I highly recommend gifting a Moby Super Dildo to the girl. She will not leave you.