Post Op Gains

[2435tjklAS]

That's way too much for my brain to understand. Looks like Dr. Perito got paid for it too. There still are other studies reporting significant increases. Look at the details for these too. These are ones that I believe are specifically concerning post-implant VED use:

Soderdahl, D. W., Petroski, R. A., Mode, D., Schwartz, B. F., & Thrasher, J. B. (1997). The use of an external vacuum device to augment a penile prosthesis. Techniques in Urology, 3(2), 100–102. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9297771/

Tsambarlis, P. N., Chaus, F., & Levine, L. A. (2017). The use of vacuum devices as adjuvant therapy before and after penile curvature surgery in patients affected by La Peyronie’s Disease: Results from a comparative study. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 14(1), Article 1. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsxm.2016.11.304

Canguven, O., Talib, R. A., Campbell, J., De Young, L., El Ansari, W., & Al-Ansari, A. (2017). Is the daily use of vacuum erection device for a month before penile prosthesis implantation beneficial? A randomized controlled trial. Andrology, 5(1), Article 1. https://doi.org/10.1111/andr.12258

Cai, T., Capece, M., Ceruti, C., Tiscione, D., Puglisi, M., Verze, P., Gontero, P., & Palmieri, A. (2023). The use of vacuum devices as adjuvant therapy before and after penile curvature surgery in patients affected by La Peyronie’s Disease: Results from a comparative study. Clinics and Practice, 13(5), Article 5. https://doi.org/10.3390/clinpract13050112

Nice catch Discovernew

Edit: Attached full-text of the third and fourth studies. Getting the first two. And second and fourth have like the same title but are actually two different ones. My brain is done.

I went back to to this comment of mine to add full-text of the other sources that proves the same as the the study this post here is about (Antonini, et al. (2020)). VEDs = good to use post-implant.

FrankTalk only let me add 3 of them so I attached the 4th here.

First, I'm basing this information on what Dr. Wang wrote about them:


The full-text of Wang's research where he states that is attached also.

Here are the results of those 4 studies.

Sederdahl et al., (1997) does not have tables. But the data does conclude with the following success:

Patients most likely to benefit from concomitant use of an EVD [external vacuum devices] to augment a penile prosthesis are those who express dissatisfaction because of inadequate length, girth. or rigidity. Additionally, an EVD may be a treatment option for those patients who are a poor surgical risk or decline further surgical revision. This combination treatment appears to be safe and effective in this subgroup of patients with erectile dysfunction.

Antonini, et al. (2018) found:

After 24 weeks of vacuum therapy the mean penile curvature deviation decreased to 8.7 � 2.5, 9.1 � 2.9 and 7.7 � 0.9 degrees, respectively. The mean IIEF-5 (International Index of Erectile Function) score was 9.8 � 2.3 preoperatively, 18.9 � 3.1 at 6 months (p <0.001) and 24.1 � 3.6 at 1 year (p <0.001). The mean EDITS (Erectile Dysfunction Inventory of Treatment Satisfaction) score at the end of followup was 64.6 � 11.8. Operative and postoperative complications were minimal.

Wang describes it in simpler terms:

Another prospective study investigated VED use after penile implant for PD as part of post implant rehabilitation in 145 patients. There was significant reduction of residual curvature and improvement of IIEF-5 (Wang 2022).

Antonini has a table I don’t understand:



Tsambarlis et al. (2017) had these results:

All 13 men underwent successful three-piece PP placement with standard-size cylinders without additional surgical maneuvers. There was one infection and one erosion requiring revision. Daily average use of VT was 32.5 minutes. SFPL increased 0.92 cm (range ¼ 0e2 cm, SD ¼ 0.76 cm) after VT and three-piece PP placement compared with preoperative SFPL. These men also noted improved quality of life and sexuality as measured by postoperative office interviews.

And showed this table but I don't know if it includes everything:


Canguven et al. (2017) confused me for a while because it’s mainly about pre-op VED use, but here’s Dr. Wang’s reasoning for including it:

Lastly, a study randomized 51 patients to 10-15 minutes daily VED use preoperatively versus no pre-op interventions and found that daily VED for at least 1 month led to a statistically significant increase of SPL by a mean of 0.8 cm compared to the control group." 19

The study had these findings:

In terms of outcomes: mean SPL increase in Group A was significantly more by a mean of 0.80 � 0.38 cm (p < 0.05) com- pared to Group B; and surgeons’ subjective report of surgical ease indicated smoother corporal dilatation for Group A compared to Group B. VED use (10–15 min/day during the month prior to PP implantation) was associated with significantly increased SPL on day of surgery, and facilitated easier corporal dilatation intraoperatively. Future studies should examine the long-term outcomes of penile prosthesis implantation after pre-operative use of vacuum erectile devices.

And in this table I think but I still don’t get any of these:


Please anyone report flaws or anything else about these results. I believe all these studied combined is more than sufficient proof that using a VED after an implant is safe and effective. We know it's great before one. I believe using one after has even greater results. I know it did for me.

[Discovernew]

Hi 2435, no judgement on your brain injury. If you want to continue discussing this topic, i suggest you let go of the whole "you are wrong, he's wrong, i'm an idiot" attitude.

We are just trying to understand a cryptic study and reach a conclusion, and not to prove anyone wrong. So from my side i prefer to engage in collaborative conversations and no desire to engage in "you are wrong" type of exchanges.

That being said, it is totally possible that the median ICI remains the same after 48 weeks, even if some patients got larger penises after VED. The Median is not the same as the average. It is likely, based on the numbers they provide, that the average penis size grew, but the median didn't.

Median means the middle person. If you want to measure the median height of a student classroom for example. Lets say there are 21 students. There are the 10 tallest, 10 shortest, and 1 in the middle. The 1 in the middle is the median. If the tallest guy in the class is 6 feet, or 7 feet, does not change anything, as long as the one in the middle stays the same. Same for the shortest, does not change anything.

An average is different, if the tallest guy is 8 feet tall or 6 feet tall, it will completely change the average. This does not happen in the median calculation. The reason median is used, is to eliminate outliars.

I hope that makes sense.

That being said, another weakness in this study is that there is no control group. We simply do not know what would happen if a bunch of other guys were doing the same study cycling the same amount of time, but without VED. So we cannot compare the difference.

Also we cannot compare to another group with a non-length expanding implant (non-LGX). Again, this is another weakness in the study.

Since this is likely an AMS sponsored study, it would seem logical that they want to show the best results possible in order to sell their device.

I hope the above helps. Just a heads up, if you plan to continue the whole "you are wrong" and similar, i don't have any interest in replying.

Cheers

[2435tjklAS]

Hi 2435, no judgement on your brain injury. If you want to continue discussing this topic, i suggest you let go of the whole "you are wrong, he's wrong, i'm an idiot" attitude.

We are just trying to understand a cryptic study and reach a conclusion, and not to prove anyone wrong. So from my side i prefer to engage in collaborative conversations and no desire to engage in "you are wrong" type of exchanges.

I think you're wrong to say I'm being that way...

[frank66665]

2435 you are obsessed with the length of your penis, make peace with it...you have over 8" of penis, it's more than enough to satisfy any woman, in fact, try to make it smaller because surely some girl will run away in fear

[2435tjklAS]

None of this has anything to do with my own penis. I'm trying to make sense of a medical study to a lot of apprehensive men about the safety and efficacy of something many here seem to fear.

[frank66665]

None of this has anything to do with my own penis. I'm trying to make sense of a medical study to a lot of apprehensive men about the safety and efficacy of something many here seem to fear.

why did you change lgx to titan?

[2435tjklAS]

None of this has anything to do with my own penis. I'm trying to make sense of a medical study to a lot of apprehensive men about the safety and efficacy of something many here seem to fear.

why did you change lgx to titan?

Dr. Hakky told me to. The reason is AMS 700 LGX only supports 5.5" girth max. It made me lose size and look disproportionately more like a pencil dick. No man would want to accept a smaller dick. Many here did have to live with it, though, and still seem reluctant about finding solutions, which is the entire point of my writing in his post - meaning, to help other men now and in the future, especially impotent ones refusing implants. Fancier wording is "to change the discourse on this forum."

When I could afford to fix it, I got it fixed. To make it even bigger than that, I'm doing that cause I'm a man.

[frank66665]

None of this has anything to do with my own penis. I'm trying to make sense of a medical study to a lot of apprehensive men about the safety and efficacy of something many here seem to fear.

why did you change lgx to titan?

Dr. Hakky told me to. The reason is AMS 700 LGX only supports 5.5" girth max. It made me lose size and look disproportionately more like a pencil dick. No man would want to accept a smaller dick. Many here did have to live with it, though, and still seem reluctant about finding solutions, which is the entire point of my writing in his post - meaning, to help other men now and in the future, especially impotent ones refusing implants. Fancier wording is "to change the discourse on this forum."

When I could afford to fix it, I got it fixed. To make it even bigger than that, I'm doing that cause I'm a man.

if the implant was fine, and it didn't bother you at all. with a hard 8.75" x 5.7" dick you're not a man? then someone with a 6" x 5" dick should jump off the brooklyn bridge?

[2435tjklAS]

why did you change lgx to titan?

Dr. Hakky told me to. The reason is AMS 700 LGX only supports 5.5" girth max. It made me lose size and look disproportionately more like a pencil dick. No man would want to accept a smaller dick. Many here did have to live with it, though, and still seem reluctant about finding solutions, which is the entire point of my writing in his post - meaning, to help other men now and in the future, especially impotent ones refusing implants. Fancier wording is "to change the discourse on this forum."

When I could afford to fix it, I got it fixed. To make it even bigger than that, I'm doing that cause I'm a man.

if the implant was fine, and it didn't bother you at all. with a hard 8.75" x 5.7" dick you're not a man? then someone with a 6" x 5" dick should jump off the brooklyn bridge?

Bigger feels better for women. It improves my chances of finding more attractive ones, and significantly improves my odds at them coming back. fyi.

[2435tjklAS]

...with a hard 8.75" x 5.7" dick you're not a man? then someone with a 6" x 5" dick should jump off the brooklyn bridge?

Oh, about this, in no way am I implying I care about the size of another man's penis or stating anything about its relation to his masculinity. I obviously don't give a fuck what size his dick is (though I have looked but not found comparable sizes to me on grindr. Maybe one day).

But you cannot deny that the size of each man's penis is of inherent importance to himself and his psychology. This is a giant reason why the consensus on this forum that before I got here used to be that implants always cause size loss and how much of it depends on the skills of the surgeon who "undersized" or "oversized" you needs to permanantly die a quick and painful death (surgeon is only capable of giving you the right size that matches your real, natural erection if you use a VED for months before the implant to treat or heal fibrosis, which is also the direct cause of your erection problems). And size loss was caused by inadequate exercise post-implant. Nicely this study speaks directly to that fact - many doctors told patients to cycle for 15 minutes once or twice a day. Many took that literally and had bad results. This study in this post proves it actually does work if you simply add a VED to the mix. That's why it's perfect and in no way "cryptic." This is also why I spend a lot of time writing in posts like this so men with erection problems need not fear implants anymore. If any of you lost size and that still bothers you, it doesn't fucking matter - start exercising it now and it'll be a whole lot bigger come your next revision.

If you want to clearly understand why men care so much about their dicks, this is why. By Dr. Alex Comfort in his seminal book, "The Joy of Sex" (1972):

Preoccupation with the size of their genitals is as built-in biologically to men (it is a 'dominance signal', like a deer's antlers) as sensitivity about their breasts and figure is to women. That, however, is its only importance. The 'average' penis is about 6 inches overall when erect and about 3 1/2 inches round, but penises come in all sizes - larger ones are spectacular but no more effective except as visual stimuli. Smaller ones work equally well in most positions. Accordingly, excessive preoccupation with size is an irrational anxiety, on which quacks batten one can't increase it, any more than one can increase stature. Girls should learn not to comment on it except favorably, for fear of creating a lasting hang-up - men should learn not to give it a second thought.** The few cases where male genitalia are really infantile go with major gland disturbances and are treatable but rare.